Books 3 & 4:Living up to her rep, Cather provides us with some amazing descriptions of the landscape. Book 3, Chapter 3 in particular had some of my favorite imagery... including her comparisons of the desert to the first Creation and of the earthly mesas reflected in the sky, one the duplicate of the other. Another image that stuck with me -- the desert as sea... "The sandy soil of the plain had a light sprinkling of junipers, and was splotched with masses of blooming rabbit brush, that olive-colored plant that grows in high waves like a tossing sea, at this season covered with a thatch of bloom, yellow as gorse, or orange like marigolds." (I loved all the colors, too.)
Aside: Many thanks to my trusty pal Google. What would I do without him to show me "gorse" quicker than I can say the word, um, "gorse"?
As I get deeper in to the novel, my affection for LaTour and Vaillant continues to grow. I share Jacinto's respect for LaTour -- so honest, earnest and straight-forward. I also have great affection for Vaillant -- especially when he turns Father Gallegos' parish around from party zealots to religious zealots, each parish member trying to outdo the next with acts of righteousness. So funny!
My one-track mind keeps going back to the question: How does Cather intend for us to feel about the church v. the existing culture? She keeps pushing us back and forth, I think. She gives us things to respect, and question, in both. LaTour, as respectful and insightful as ever, plays upon the similarities to bring the two together. At the end of Book 4, Father LaTour remarks on the superstitions and beliefs of the Indians. He says "that [the Indians] veneration for old customs was a quality he liked... it played a great part in his own religion."
Oh, and also, there was a buttload of imagery and symbolism that I'm to dense to understand completely. My tiny little brain is hurting from trying to figure out "the lips."
{image}
Aside: Many thanks to my trusty pal Google. What would I do without him to show me "gorse" quicker than I can say the word, um, "gorse"?
As I get deeper in to the novel, my affection for LaTour and Vaillant continues to grow. I share Jacinto's respect for LaTour -- so honest, earnest and straight-forward. I also have great affection for Vaillant -- especially when he turns Father Gallegos' parish around from party zealots to religious zealots, each parish member trying to outdo the next with acts of righteousness. So funny!
My one-track mind keeps going back to the question: How does Cather intend for us to feel about the church v. the existing culture? She keeps pushing us back and forth, I think. She gives us things to respect, and question, in both. LaTour, as respectful and insightful as ever, plays upon the similarities to bring the two together. At the end of Book 4, Father LaTour remarks on the superstitions and beliefs of the Indians. He says "that [the Indians] veneration for old customs was a quality he liked... it played a great part in his own religion."
Oh, and also, there was a buttload of imagery and symbolism that I'm to dense to understand completely. My tiny little brain is hurting from trying to figure out "the lips."
{image}
I'm such a deadbeat I still need to get a copy of the book! But I loved reading your analysis of it so far and I promise to get on the ball. I think it's awesome you girls set this up.
ReplyDeleteI thought it was interesting that there was more mention of faces in these two books. For example, the fandango fanatic Padre Gallegos unfortunately “could not change his face. Something...in his countenance suggested an underhanded mode of life.” And one of my favorite parts was Jacinto’s observation that “there were many kinds of false faces,” and his admiration of Father Latour for having none. He notices: “He stood straight and turned to the Governor of Laguna and his face underwent no change,” which he thinks is “remarkable.” I agree. Father Latour seems to have untainted motives and a transparent faith, and it shows.
ReplyDeleteI think as far as the missionaries v. the native religion and culture, Cather’s observations are probably pretty accurate. The people respect the influence of the Church and might even participate in it themselves when the priests and missionaries practice what they preach (except for maybe Padre Gallegos - everyone seemed game to get on board with his party hardy ways). But I thought Friar Baltazar was a good example of the natives tolerating the Church’s presence until one of its representatives crosses the line. They put up with the Friar's unreasonable demands on water supply and gardening work, but as soon as he clocked one of their boys upside the head with a lethal pewter mug, it was a swift toss over the side of the cliff for him.
Father Latour and Father Vaillant believe in what they are doing. I think that garners the respect of others, even if it doesn’t always lead to their conversion. And Father Latour’s mutual respect for the “Indian” religion is more evidence of his tolerance and love for the people he’s come to convert.
My favorite chapter in book 3 is definately chapter 2. I love reading about Jacinto and the relationship he has with Father Latour. I liked the description of his way of speaking... "He had noticed how kind the Indian voice could be when it was kind at all; a slight inflection made one feel that one had received a great compliment." and then..... "Jacinto usually dropped the article in speaking Spanish, just as he did when speaking English, though the Bishop had noticed that when he did give a noun its article, he used the right one. The customary ommission, therefore, seemed to be a matter of taste, not ignorance." I think this is Cather's way of bringing in theme of different does not equal better or worse, just different. I think it also shows a lot about the Bishop though as well, picking up on the fact that this man is not ignorant where some may fall to easily into pre-judgements. Actually, the more I think about it....this really does say so much about the character of Father Latour.... I love how Cather can be slip this stuff in and without having to say it specifically, we really get an idea as to the caliber of men (good and bad) that we run into throughout the stories. I noticed that Melissa and Kelly both picked up on different examples of this as well and we start to find "affection" as Melissa put it for these characters.
ReplyDeleteOkay, so that was a long tangent. Back to dear Jacinto! What a beautiful image when Jacinto and Father Latour are speaking of the stars and Latour tells him that wise men says the stars are other worlds and he asks what Jacinto thinks. I love both his reply and Cather's description of his tone and how it was of "one who has considered a proposition fairly and rejected it." I think that is so telling of his culture and beliefs. He obviously knows right away that he doesn't believe that and he has strong Indian tradition that gives him his own belief system and yet there is still that respect given to those of another belief, in that he can disagree "fairly". Good lesson.
Okay, last thought on Jacinto. Towards the very end of Chap. 2, after they have said their prayers at the side of the fire, it says that "The Bishop went to sleep thinking with satisfaction that he was beginning to have some sort of human companionship with his Indian boy." At first I was a little offended by this coming from our loved Latour, thinking, why would it be any different with this "Indian" than with anyone else (This brings out the natural PC in me) but then I realized that the term companionship signified he is merely content that slowly a relationship is building between two people who are worlds apart in almost everything they are, have seen, believe, ect. It takes us back to the part just before the stars conversation when the Bishop is thinkgin about how their own memories (his of European and Jacinto of of the long Indian tradition) could never transfer this into eachothers minds saying "there was no language that could translate..." Isn't that cool? So true...some things are just apart of us, just who we are. Some things can't be explained in any language. Sometimes language isnt' the real barrier at all.
And Kelly, I picked up on the "false face" thing too. That was such a neat part to see Jacinto's perspective on Latour.
And finally. I'm just gonna put this out there..... is it just me or is anyone else using for their frame of reference for the old pueblo and Indian villages the grandma's house of selma hyak in the movie Fools Rush In????
(I may have just been the first bookish girl to the get the boot with that last comment.... :)
Casey
P.S. I just read some of what I wrote, I feel a disclaimer that I have a 5 week old is appropriate in order to alleviate potential discrimination due to spelling, grammer, punctuation, and general rambling.
What?! I've considered stripping myself of the "bookish" title -- but never you! And truthfully, I live for pop culture references... Trust me, if I could work Michael Jackson into this dialogue somehow, I would. And one last thing, how is it that I have seen "Fools Rush In" way more times than the movie deserves? Seriously, I've lost count. And if I catch it in the middle, I MUST finish it. I'm pretty sure TBS was running it 24/7 until they replaced it with "You've Got Mail".
ReplyDeleteOK, so I loved the faces thing... but I didn't see the larger theme until Kelly pointed it out. Maybe that accounts for the lips? I'm going to start paying more attention to faces as a theme.
Also, I loved, loved, loved your point about "sometimes language isn't the real barrier at all". Brilliant!